state of play: 10/09/2019
Political Arena: Rokita Warns PO Could Become Obsolete, RZ Editor on PiS's Unprecedented Power, Jaruzelska Advocates for 'Civil Unions,' Warsaw Hosts Fukuyama-Navalny Debate
-- 14 YEARS AGO Donald Tusk defeated Lech Kaczyński in the first round of the presidential election. The second round (October 23) featured Donald Tusk (36.33%) and Lech Kaczyński (33.10%).
-- 8 YEARS AGO, the co-ruling Civic Platform won the parliamentary elections to the Sejm and Senate. 39.2% of the vote translated into 45% of seats (207).
-- IN WARSAW, A FUKUYAMA - NAVALNY DEBATE - IT CAN BE WATCHED ON THE NIEMCOWA FORUM - HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyedmrU2gsU
-- THE NIEMCOWA FORUM IN WARSAW WILL BE OPENED BY THE MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS - FULL PROGRAM: https://freerussia.eu/pl/forum-niemcowa-2019/o-forum/program/
-- HEAD OF THE CHANCELLERY OF THE PRIME MINISTER IN A BOND-LIKE SPOT: https://300polityka.pl/news/2019/10/09/dworczyk-w-bondowskim-spocie-skacze-na-spadochronie-i-mowi-o-tym-co-zrobil-dla-okregu-walbrzyskiego/
-- I HAVE KNOWN HIM FOR YEARS AS A MAN DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE OF FREEDOM IN POLAND - LESZEK BALCEROWICZ SUPPORTS MICHAŁ KAMIŃSKI FOR THE SENATE: https://youtu.be/tXsUyJR6vyU
-- MARIUSZ WITCZAK ON POLLS INDICATING A CHANCE TO REMOVE PIS: https://video.wp.pl/tajne-sondaze-wyborcze-mariusz-witczak-przekonuje-mozna-odsunac-pis-od-wladzy-6433221947623041v
-- KOWNACKI DISTRIBUTES FORKS DURING CAMPAIGN: https://bydgoszcz.wyborcza.pl/bydgoszcz/7,48722,25283763,wybory-parlamentarne-2019-bartosz-kownacki-znow-o-widelcu.html
-- JAROSŁAW KACZYŃSKI MOBILIZES PIS VOTERS - 300LIVE: https://300polityka.pl/live/2019/10/09/
-- MONIKA JARUZELSKA ON THE CHANGE OF TERMINOLOGY IN THE DEBATE ABOUT PARTNERSHIP UNIONS - IT'S BETTER TO CALL THEM CIVIL UNIONS - she says in an interview with Gazeta Stołeczna: “I would vote for the liberalization of the abortion law, so that social and psychological reasons would also be grounds for terminating a pregnancy. But I don't like the phrase 'abortion on demand.' It can offend women who, for example, have experienced the tragedy of miscarriage. I am in favor of partnership unions. But I would call them civil unions, to facilitate their procedure. Because the term 'partnership unions' might already have negative connotations for Poles due to the right-wing. Civil unions should be available to same-sex and opposite-sex couples.”
http://warszawa.wyborcza.pl/warszawa/7,54420,25286907,jaruzelska-zycie-nie-jest-ani-prawicowe-ani-lewicowe-a-ja.html
-- MANIFESTATIONS OF DISPROPORTION BETWEEN THE VITALITY OF FORMATIONS AND KACZYŃSKI HAVE REACHED THE LEVEL OF BANALITY - JAN ROKITA IN WYBORCZY PLUS/MINUS RZ: “However, what is most striking in the final stage of the election campaign is the significant disproportion in vitality and political strength between the competing formations of Jarosław Kaczyński and Grzegorz Schetyna. To be honest, observing the manifestations of this disproportion has reached the level of banality; everyone sees it, talks about it, and writes about it.”
-- THE SOURCE OF SPLEN IN SCHETYNA'S PARTY IS THE GROWING PREMONITION THAT PLATFORM MAY BECOME A BEING NO ONE NEEDS - ROKITA FURTHER: “Because there will simply be no anti-PiS coup. I want to put forward the hypothesis that the source of spleen in Schetyna's party is the growing premonition of such a change in the model of Polish politics, as a result of which the Platform may become a being no one needs. And that this premonition has a fairly solid basis in political realities.”
-- THE LAST DAYS OF PLATFORM? - JAN ROKITA'S CONCLUSION IN RZ: “The dispute over power between Tusk and Kaczyński, ignited after 2005, is slowly dying down, and a second clear election victory for PiS (if it happens in a few days) will completely invalidate the Platform's quasi-revolutionary strategy of the last four years, handing the final victory in this dispute to Kaczyński. It will be a bit like the end of the Cold War once was in the world, resulting for a time, probably not a very long one, in the dominance of the victorious side. I have an undeniable impression that Donald Tusk, who has distanced himself (or been distanced?) from the Platform after his unfortunate attempts to participate in the European campaign, sees reality in such categories. And it is unlikely that he still associates serious hopes with this party. Again, Nitras speaks about it with excessive honesty: 'If Tusk wanted to support us more strongly, he probably would have done so; I haven't had a chance to ask about the reasons why he isn't doing so.' For now, the inertial force of social conservatism still works in Schetyna's favor, which still guarantees the Platform second place in the elections this time. But many signs indicate that this might be the last time.”
https://www.rp.pl/Plus-Minus-na-wybory/191009290-Polityczny-splin-Platformy-Obywatelskiej.html
-- NO ONE SINCE JARUZELSKI HAS HAD SUCH AN APPARATUS AS PIS - BOGUSŁAW CHRABOTA IN RZ: “What was characteristic of this campaign was that Law and Justice went for the win from the start as if it was theirs. Journalists and political scientists, analysts and experts, both opponents and supporters, seconded them in this. PiS was like a speeding truck with a confident driver and a good navigation system from the beginning. The driver drove on familiar roads and without unnecessary stops, as if aware that this might be one of his last trips. The greater the determination to deliver the goods. The system he had managed to build earlier, the government, public institutions, and television at the party's service, also helped him. No one since Jaruzelski has had such an apparatus. The opposition spoke with a much quieter voice, not always sufficiently understandable or determined. They also lacked the instruments their opponent had.”
https://www.rp.pl/Plus-Minus-na-wybory/191009293-Boguslaw-Chrabota-Kampania-pod-dyktando-PiS.html
-- ONE CAN LAMENT THE VOTERS' INDIFFERENCE TO THE DISPUTE OVER INSTITUTIONAL SOLUTIONS - PIOTR ZAREMBA IN RZ: “Indeed, PiS outbid everyone with social transfers, and in the last year, simply with electoral gifts, taking advantage of this attitude of many Poles or even generating it (whether we dealt more with the former or the latter is unclear, at least in the commentary on the research). One can also lament the voters' indifference to the dispute over institutional solutions. Questions about the judicial model will reach them when they themselves fall into some conflict of interest with the authorities. Is this, as Sierakowski wants, 'destructive for representative democracy'? Possibly.”
-- ZAREMBA ON THE OPINION OF ELITES ABOUT RUSTICITY: “But… I am reading comments from left-wing luminaries: Andrzej Leder or Kinga Dunin, on these studies. They are exploring the word clientelism in all its forms. Deep down lies the conviction, directly stated by Leder, that this is an attitude worthy of cunning peasants. It's funny. A few years ago, some left-wing luminaries, including commentators from 'Krytyka Polityczna,' which is now most engaged in these studies, lamented the remnants of nobility in the Polish mentality. The peasant element was supposed to make us rational, practical, resistant to various insanities, ideological, geopolitical, and whatever else one can imagine. Insanities associated with the right-wing. Now we can read between the lines that peasant roots hinder us from achieving the status of a civic society.”
-- IS SIERAKOWSKI TO TUSK WHAT STAFF WAS TO PIŁSUDSKI? - ZAREMBA FURTHER: “And Sławomir Sierakowski seemed to feel quite comfortable in such a model of social relations, even increasingly so. He did not complain about his fellow citizens withdrawing into privacy, about choosing peace in their gardens with barbecues – leaving public affairs to Mr. Tusk, just as Leopold Staff once left them to the Marshal. It was enough to restrain the most unenlightened – from the right-wing – in this way. However, it's not just about mutual accusations of what bothered whom when and what bothers them now.”
-- COMMENTATORS LOST IN STEREOTYPES - ZAREMBA'S CONCLUSION: “But there are also significant differences. Sadura and Sierakowski claim that the provincial electorates of PiS and PO are quite similar to each other. Prof. Radkiewicz, on the other hand, emphasizes the extremely divergent values of both groups: strong communitarianism versus equally consistent individualism. It is possible that it concerns different time periods or research areas, or differences in other spheres. But this is not clearly evident. We, political commentators, wander among various stereotypes. And that might be sadder than the fact that an emotional actor talks nonsense.”
https://www.rp.pl/Plus-Minus-na-wybory/191009292-Niemadre---mitologie.html
-- AT LEAST THE ROGUES FROM PIS ARE SHARING - MICHAŁ SZUŁDRZYŃSKI IN RZ: “But the revelation by the media of PO's ties with the 'SokzBuraka' hate profile or Neumann's tapes might lead voters to believe that both sides have skeletons in their closets. Paradoxically, however, this works to PiS's advantage. Well, since there are deal-makers on both sides, there is no choice between good and evil, but between two cliques. Except that PiS has managed to create a narrative that perhaps not only saints are there, but at least citizens get something from this government in the form of social transfers. To put it tabloidy: both sides are rogues, but at least the rogues from PiS share with the voters. The right-wing band, unlike the liberal one, resembles Robin Hood, who gives part of the loot to the poor.”
-- WILL NEUMANN DROWN THE PLATFORM? - SZUŁDRZYŃSKI FURTHER: “As a result, moderate opposition voters might conclude that it's not worth going to the polls, that Civic Coalition isn't that much better than PiS. On the other hand, moderate right-wing voters might feel more motivated, as they will consider that perhaps this PiS isn't so bad compared to Platform, that one might have to hold their nose sometimes during the right-wing's governance, but a return to power by PO would be even worse. Additionally, PiS, which is currently struggling with motivating its own electorate, gets an energy boost. And that's why Neumann's tapes could be a serious problem for Civic Coalition.”
https://www.rp.pl/Plus-Minus-na-wybory/191009291-Michal-Szuldrzynski-Neumann-topi-Platforme.html
-- JADWIGA EMILEWICZ SUGGESTS THE POSSIBILITY OF LEGAL CONVENIENCES FOR INFORMAL UNIONS - as she says in an interview with Onet: “If there are legal problems, I am ready to discuss them. Problems with inheritance? Let's check what needs to be changed in the law so that same-sex partners can unambiguously inherit from each other. Regarding obtaining information about health status, there is no problem here. But if there is, we can discuss how to solve it.”
https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/tylko-w-onecie/jadwiga-emilewicz-sprawdzmy-co-w-ustawie-nalezaloby-zmienic-aby-partnerzy-tej-samej/4kvtccp
-- KAMIL DZIUBKA BELIEVES KOSINIAK SAVED THE PSL: “After a series of television debates before the parliamentary elections, one thing can be said for sure – Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz is returning from them victorious. It is very possible that the leader of the PSL, which is teetering on the 5% threshold, has pulled his party out of trouble and ensured its survival. This will also be significant for PiS's final result. Kosiniak-Kamysz's decent performances may determine the PSL's continued presence in the Sejm. With a little help from those who still remain with Paweł Kukiz (running on the Ludowcy lists), he has a good chance of squeaking through the electoral threshold. However, the PSL leader still leads his party by several lengths. There is also concern on the 'green side of the force' that the rural electorate may not turn out to vote.”
-- DZIUBKA ON THE PLATFORM IN CRISIS: “There are chances for this, because the Platform (Civic Coalition) in the final stretch of the campaign is like an airplane whose pilot is fighting to prevent the machine from entering a spin – but it has already lost an engine. Cruel blows were dealt to the Coalition by Lech Wałęsa, who first criticized the KO… at its own convention, and then withdrew his support for Schetyna's grouping, transferring it to the PSL (from which Kosiniak-Kamysz distanced himself). Moreover, he also withdrew from this last move (perhaps he remembered that his son is running on the Coalition's lists). This time, the KO was represented by Izabela Leszczyna. Her performance was correct, but not dazzling. And it is precisely dazzling displays that the Coalition needs now like a fish needs water. Strong shots, spectacular plays. The kind of thing that captured attention during the previous debate by Borys Budka. Leszczyna tried to promote the Civic Coalition's program proposals, but did so in a way that few could understand ('the tax wedge is shrinking,' 'the Union had to adopt goals for the budget perspective').”
https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/tylko-w-onecie/wybory-2019-lider-psl-zyskal-na-debatach-to-kluczowy-moment-opinia/
-- HORAŁA PROVED HE IS VERY WELL SUITED FOR SUCH BATTLES - MARCIN FIJOŁEK: “At the same time, it was not a fight against windmills – MP Horała was clearly well-prepared for the debate, he rattled off specifics, numbers, figures from his sleeve, and all these data confirmed PiS's strong narrative throughout the campaign: we are governing effectively and want to continue governing at a high level. Even if it's a clearly simplified narrative (as is the case in a campaign), Horała confirmed that he is very well suited for this type of journalistic battles (the punchline about 'the largest opposition party – TVN' will go down in the history of such exchanges).”
-- FIJOŁEK ON THE PAINFULLY PREDICTABLE CAMPAIGN: “Therefore, Tuesday's debate on TVN will not cause any significant shifts in electorates between individual groupings in the final stretch; at most, it will reinforce their convictions (especially those under the PiS and PO banner). It's just another, painfully predictable episode in a painfully predictable campaign. No breakthrough, no reset.”
https://wpolityce.pl/m/polityka/467419-czworo-szescioro-na-jednego-czyli-horala-dal-rade-w-tvn
-- THE TVN DEBATE WAS IMPARTIAL - Michał Danielewski and Agata Szczęśniak in OKO: “Marcin Horała from PiS complained for an hour and a half that the rules of the debate on TVN were aimed against PiS. Why? He couldn't explain. And he was wrong: the TVN debate was impartial, substantive, interesting, with well-prepared participants.”
-- EVERYONE DID WELL - THE AUTHORS OF OKO FURTHER: “Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz (PSL) started with a sprint and was clearly out of breath by the end. Izabela Leszczyna (KO) ran calmly in the middle of the pack, not forcing the pace. Marcin Horała chose the tactic of elbowing his way through during the run. Krzysztof Bosak (Konfederacja) took on the role of a 'hare,' meaning he pushed the pace, was most visible, but dropped out of the race towards the end. Adrian Zandberg (Lewica) started slowly, at the back of the pack, but later went in pursuit and crossed the finish line with the others. Because there were no winners of this debate. Everyone did well and achieved their goals.”
https://oko.press/debata-w-tvn-bardzo-ciekawa-ale-bez-wyraznego-zwyciezcy-w-sympatiach-wyborcow-raczej-nic-nie-zmieni/
-- PROF. MACIEJ KISILOWSKI ON THE NEED FOR DEMOCRATS TO HAVE UJAZDOWSKI - he writes in OKO: “We need more Kazimierz Michał Ujazdowski's and we shouldn't scare away those conservatives who are hesitating today about which side to stand on. The most important thing is to remove PiS from state institutions. Otherwise, we risk a Hungarian scenario, the cruelty of which Poles are not aware. The more populists transform into elites bloated with power, the more they have to prove that they are still street fighters, Davids fighting against the mighty Goliath of hostile forces.”
-- WE NEED MORE MICHAŁ KAZIMIERZ'S - PROF. KISILOWSKI FURTHER: “Every politician who moved from PiS to the democratic side is our victory, not a reason to accuse them of opportunism. We need more Kazimierz Michał Ujazdowski's and we shouldn't scare away those who are hesitating today. The most important thing is to remove PiS from state institutions. In short: let's hurry to love them, because in four years we will have to love much worse ones. Year after year, opposition parties must reach further to the right, because simply more and more voters, fed propaganda and hatred, are shifting their views in that direction. Today, an opposition government after the opposition's victory over PiS on October 13, 2019, would have to include Paweł Kukiz, with his homophobic and misogynistic outbursts, but at least with democratic intuitions regarding accountability of power. In four years, it may turn out that winning the elections will be mathematically impossible without the support of environments like today's Konfederacja, which many young men vote for.”
https://oko.press/prof-kisilowski-wyciagnijcie-reke-do-konserwatystow/
-- THE LEFT CANNOT BETRAY ITS VALUES - MICHAŁ DANIELEWSKI IN OKO POLEMIZES WITH KISILOWSKI: “The proposal that parties and environments adhering to European, social-liberal values should betray their voters and supporters just so that one or another middle-aged right-wing politician might condescendingly vote against some of Kaczyński's ideas is a path to even greater apathy among the opposition public opinion and even lower mobilization in subsequent elections. We do not need a policy of appeasement; we need courage. Hope and unambiguous values, not rotten compromises. If the conservative side wants to stand on the side of democracy – great. If the condition is the left's agreement to a kind of conservative-national democracy – then, unfortunately, we should go down other paths. How to do it effectively, Jarosław Kaczyński has already shown several times…”
-- THE VISION OF ROTTEN COMPROMISES WILL NOT INSPIRE ANYONE - DANIELEWSKI'S CONCLUSION: “When the PiS leader lost, he always focused first on pampering his base. Not without reason did he expel most of the more liberal politicians from the party. Not without reason was the Smoleńsk catastrophe an assassination after losing the elections in 2011, and after winning in 2015, the conspiracy rhetoric was gradually pushed into the background. A political camp in defense must defend its values, stand guard over them, clearly state what is good and what is bad. It must have a vision of Poland that will appeal to its most devoted supporters. A vision of Poland of rotten compromises, prevarication, and evasion will not appeal to any voter.”
https://oko.press/lewica-nie-moze-zdradzic-wartosci/
-- KASPRZAK SAVES, NOT BREAKS, THE SENATE PACT - KAJA PUTO IN KRYTYKA: “Despite everything, however, I am very happy with Kasprzak's decision. His candidacy saves the 'Senate pact' in the Warsaw district, which has been compromised by Schetyna: voters are making a compromise, but they are sure that they are casting their vote for a person who will defend democratic values. Moreover, there is no indication that the fragmentation of votes in the Warsaw district will lead to a PiS victory. And even if that happens – we will have only Grzegorz Schetyna to thank for it.”
-- PUTO ON GIERTYCH - TODAY A GREAT DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY: “One could also possibly draw a curtain of silence over the poor performance of the KO candidate in the Ministry of Culture, which he headed three times, without having great competence for it. He then promoted, as is often the case on the right, a nativity-play-like, ignorant vision of Polish culture, stifling the development of contemporary art (e.g., by expelling Anda Rottenberg from Zachęta), creating a rather shoddy 'Patriotism of Tomorrow' program, and showering millions of zlotys on church renovations. Alright – he deserves a small plus for blocking Giertych's reading list, today a great defender of democracy. In any case, he wouldn't have done much damage in the Senate in this regard.”
https://krytykapolityczna.pl/kraj/pawel-kasprzak-pakt-senacki/
-- KINGA DUNIN ON WHO SHE WILL VOTE FOR - she writes in Krytyka: “So, I will cast my vote for Sebastian Liszka from Wiosna – and formerly a member of the KP team. So, as usual, my candidate will not get elected – but so be it, a bit of idealism is also useful. If I weren't voting in Warsaw, I would unhesitatingly support other people whom I have known for a long time thanks to Krytyka Polityczna: Maciej Gdula (number one in Krakow) and Hanna Gill-Piątek (number two in Łódź).”
-- DUNIN HESITATES ON UJAZDOWSKI: “The Senate remains – here the electoral law leaves no room for idealism. But Kazimierz Ujazdowski?! I know the Senate can be the last resort of democratic salvation, but there are certain limits. I don't know yet what I will do. Why do I vote one way or another? Out of habit. I am a staunch voter for the left, but at the same time, I try to be pragmatic. So I will vote for the left-wing list, although there is still no such left-wing in Poland that I would like to choose.”
https://krytykapolityczna.pl/kraj/kinga-dunin-wybory-parlamentarne-2019/
-- ANTONI IS LEFT ENTIRELY ALONE WITH THIS SMOLENSK MATTER - ANDRZEJ STANKIEWICZ IN ONET QUOTES A PIS POLITICIAN: “Antoni is left entirely alone with this Smoleńsk matter. PiS leadership washed their hands of it and pushed it onto him. And you know what's saddest? That he probably doesn't realize how much they've left him out in the cold – says a close associate of Macierewicz.”
-- STANKIEWICZ ON THE FACT THAT EXPERT OPINIONS ON THE SMOLENSK MATTER ARE READY: “As Onet checked in selected foreign laboratories, the deadlines for conducting research have expired. For example, the Forensic Science Northern Ireland (FSNI) laboratory responded that they signed a contract on October 10, 2017, for two years of research. It is unofficially known that the results of the sample tests are already in Poland. And what do they show? The prosecutor's office does not answer questions, and Deputy Prosecutor General Marek Pasionek, responsible for this investigation, does not answer the phone. The investigation into the alleged conspiracy between Tusk and Putin to harm Lech Kaczyński – which was supposed to be so-called diplomatic treason – is also crawling. The prosecutor's office is stuck on the court's refusal to release Tusk's interpreter from professional secrecy.”
-- THEY PROVED NOTHING ABOUT THE SMOLENSK MATTER - STANKIEWICZ'S CONCLUSION: “Before the elections, PiS constructed a precise puzzle. According to it, Smoleńsk is most likely an assassination, before the tragic flight to Smoleńsk, Tusk's government conspired with the Russians, and then covered up the causes of the catastrophe by falsifying the government report of the Miller commission and leading the prosecutorial investigation astray. For four years in power, with all services and documents at its disposal, the ruling camp has not been able to prove even one element of this puzzle.”
https://wiadomosci.onet.pl/tylko-w-onecie/andrzej-stankiewicz-smolensk-zniknal-we-mgle-razem-z-macierewiczem/w1jdc57
-- 42% WANT RELIGION OUTSIDE SCHOOLS - JACEK GĄDEK ON THE KANTAR STUDY: “More than half of Poles want religion to continue to be taught in school. However, as many as 66% of respondents believe that the Church should pay for the lessons, regardless of whether they take place in school or in church halls. This is according to a Kantar poll for Gazeta.pl, "Gazeta Wyborcza," and TOK FM radio. Meanwhile, 42% of Poles are of the opinion that religious education classes should 'take place outside of school and be financed by the Church.'”
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/7,114884,25283763,sondaz-wiekszosc-polakow-chce-religii-w-szkole-ale-jeszcze.html
-- JACEK KARNOWSKI ON KO LYING ABOUT 500+: “On a narrower scale, let's also note that the project of transferring a large part of income tax revenues from individuals and companies to provincial self-governments means that the PO government inherently assumes the liquidation of the large social programs of the PiS government. It is impossible to maintain 500+ or the thirteenth pension if the state budget loses such a significant portion of its revenue; this is complete fiction. If PO proposes both maintaining what 'has been given' and a financial division of resources, it means that it either proposes mutually contradictory things or knows perfectly well that – if only out of principle, if only out of hatred for PiS – it will liquidate all social gains.”
https://wpolityce.pl/m/polityka/467437-po-zabierze-500-sama-to-mowi-glosno-i-wyraznie-oto-dowod
-- MICHAŁ SZUŁDRZYŃSKI ASKS IN RZ WHY WOJCIECHOWSKI DID NOT PREPARE FOR THE FIRST HEARING: “The new commissioner, taking over a portfolio that is important not only for our agriculture but also for the French and Germans, deserves congratulations. However, it is worth asking: couldn't he have prepared well a week ago and saved himself and Poland three rounds of hearings?”
https://www.rp.pl/Komentarze/191009248-Szuldrzynski-A-gdyby-tak-Wojciechowski-od-razu-sie-przygotowal.html
-- BIRTHDAYS: Piotr Uszok, Maciej Małecki.
live
4 hours
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5 hours
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6 hours
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„Our mission is for the friendship between Poles and Hungarians not to become a subject of short-lived political tremors.” — Nawrocki with the President of Hungary
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Morawiecki: "Polexit is a scare tactic repeated by Tusk for years. Poland wants to be in the EU, but as an equal partner."
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Discussion on Poland's Future Vision: Nawrocki Invites to the 1st Presidential Congress of Youth Councils
state of play
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state of play
today
STATE OF PLAY: Nawrocki to speak in Texas, Zaremba: The Right will ignore the Constitutional Tribunal like Tusk does now, Szpala/Kondzińska: The Palace has seriously begun the game for the Right's victory, Pacewicz: PiS has started to catch up
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